uk-netmarketing Archive (2011-2015)

Hi John,



We normally operate on a 1&3 basis.



We have on board ‘system email’  functionality,  part of the CMS ‘My
Account’ using exim.   We use 1 for bullet proof, text only, system emails
and then look to third parties for richer newsletter functionality.



We’ve used all of those mentioned,  and a few more (Strongmail 2,  Adestra
2 &3) – but we keep coming back to Mailchimp;   great functionality, the
API is good and well documented,  the support great,  it’s cheap as
chips.     We’ve got Mailchimp hooked up for site driven (RSS) personalised
campaigns  that are automated,  user accounts & list managed using API
(subs / unsubs / preferences) – and it was so easy to implement, and just
works every day,  with no intervention.    You’ve got to love that.



Mailchimp have also just bought http://www.tinyletter.com  which is a
stripped down,  bare bones super simple solution – nice for a no nonsense
quick & dirty (cheap) implementation,  probably worth a look too.



2p



angus



*From:* uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com [mailto:
uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com] *On Behalf Of *John Braithwaite
*Sent:* 28 February 2012 13:01
*To:* uk-netmarketing
*Subject:* Re: [uk-netmarketing] Flexible Email Marketing Solution



Thanks for all the replies so far... I think it seems to be:

1. Hosted/Cloud - Campaign Monitor, Mailchimp, Dotmailer recommended
(depending on functionality / cost)

2. Licensed (Self-Hosted) - Interspire (though has mixed reviews from what
I read - although you can't always trust web reviews, sadly)

3. Build - DIY approach



For us, I think I can discount '3' right away.... because it's just too
much work for not enough reward to do it properly. I need some of the more
advanced functionality so it's not just a merge, but much more than that...
per client. Also, the hidden 'cost' in this kind of solution isn't just the
development cost, but also if it under-performs for clients, the ongoing
maintenance and the additional time taken to produce emailshots. Time in
email is probably greater than the cost of sending...



For 1. I am definitely not going to scale up from here, because those
charging £500 a month or so, they're aiming at the 'big boys' and for them
to pretend that buying emails at virtually 1p a send COST is good value,
then they also fail to understand the mechanics of the lower end of the
scale. So it'll have to be one of the more budget players with a robust API
(which is why Campaign Monitor may be a good option).



For 2. It seems that the only one (Interspire) mentioned has flaws and,
though self-hosted has other costs (from SMTP services to customisation),
though it probably offers the most scalable solution for a smaller agency.
It's worth a dig around, though.



Will let you know if we uncover anything...  thank you for all the
responses - again much appreciated!







John







On 28 Feb 2012, at 10:16, Alasdair Orr wrote:



Second that - have used Campaign Monitor for years and rate it, simple,
good value, good reporting and list managent - though am interested if
others think otherwise compared to what else is out there. I suppose it's
horses for courses...



Cheers,

Al

-----------------

Alasdair Orr

Business Development Director

SugarShaker - Digital Marketing & Web Development



T: 0844 800 7109

M: 0797 999 0898

E: al at sugarshaker.com

W: www.sugarshaker.com



SugarShaker Enterprises Limited registered in England and Wales under
company no. 6578040.



We take no responsibility for any remarks or opinions given by employees
contained in this email message. No representations are made about the
suitability of the information contained in this email; it is made "as is"
without warranty of any kind. We will only recognise any claims or
obligations arising from the contents of this email if the sender has the
appropriate level of authority within SugarShaker Enterprises Limited.



Although this email and any attachments are believed to be free of any
virus or any other defect, which might affect any computer or IT system
into which they are received and opened, it is the responsibility of the
recipient to ensure they are virus free and no responsibility is accepted
by SugarShaker Enterprises Limited for any loss or damage arising in any
way from receipt or use thereof.








On 27 Feb 2012, at 19:33, Danny Bluestone <Danny at cyber-duck.co.uk> wrote:

All



We have moved from Dotmailer to Campaign Monitor 6 months ago and have been
impressed with Campaign Monitor as a mailing platform. Campaign Monitor
offer a great user experience, cheaper costs and high levels of customer
service – they really do care about every email that is inputted into their
system! Moving to Campaign Monitor was a very good decision for us an
agency.


Best regards

Danny Bluestone

Managing Director

Cyber-Duck <http://www.cyber-duck.co.uk/>





*From:* uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com
[mailto:uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com] *On Behalf Of *Sue Fidler
*Sent:* 27 February 2012 12:09
*To:* uk-netmarketing
*Subject:* Re: [uk-netmarketing] Flexible Email Marketing Solution



Hi again



dotMailer haven’t raised the prices for 8 years and have actually lowered
them.. plus they do have a commitment to me personally that they will
continue to support the system and maintain the services, costs and support
as is.



Re the reselling – I have several agencies who already do that and we
haven’t had any problem, they get direct support and it all seems to work
fine.



Best Regards



*Sue*



*sue at suefidler.com* <sue at suefidler.com>

*07889 350285*

* *

*Website, Social Media, Email and EFundraising*

*Copywriting and Site Building, Database Development*

*Mentoring, Development, Strategy and Delivery*

* *

*We are*

                       <image001.gif>

*www.suefidler.com*

*www.charityemail.co.uk*


*Sue Fidler Associates is a trading name of Sue Fidler Ltd Co. Reg. No.
05921302 Registered in England and Wales
Registered Office: 38/9 Bucklersbury, Hitchin, SG5 1BG VAT No. 888323679*



*From:* uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com [mailto:
uk-netmarketing-bounces at mm.chinwag.com] *On Behalf Of *John Braithwaite
*Sent:* 25 February 2012 12:22
*To:* uk-netmarketing
*Subject:* Re: [uk-netmarketing] Flexible Email Marketing Solution



Thanks Sam, Sue, Mark



Very interesting... all thoughts I've had... Sam, I'd name and shame
privately, but not on the list, but the system I currently use, for
example, charges me about £2,000 a year before I sneeze, then a decent
amount per email, and then on top of that various costs for testing,
accounts, reporting, access and so on.



The two issues I have is:

1. It just isn't very good - for example I just sent 50,000 emails that
took A DAY (yes, 24 hours) to send - I didn't set any throttling etc.
That's just how long it took. And the UI is really mediocre and clunky. And
if I want the full API I'd need to spend even more...

2. I just can't grow my email business. Every other area of the business is
growing and offering value to clients - PPC, MVT, Build, Mobile and so on -
but the clumsy email supplier is difficult to sell - a monthly fee is fine,
but then you get everything else on top. I just can't scale my business and
would have to sell 'at cost' to pick up some clients. So why bother? So,
that's why I'm looking around.



Specifically on the responses:

- Sue, interesting, although I am always concerned with resellers that they
may end up in the unfortunate position of raising prices because DotMailer
chooses to do so. Not only that, but because I also sometimes resell - then
I'd be white labelling a white label of another service... I think at least
two tiers too many ;-)

- Mark, I am seriously considering that, main issue is resource and cost to
setup in the first place to get everything in place to serve clients:
automations, customisation, subject line testing, re-sends to non opens,
unsubscription management, form plugin / immediate access, wrappers and so
on... sure if it was just 'here's the email (from, say, Dreamweaver
templates), here's the list (uploaded), send' then that would be a
relatively simple one, but actually for what I do it's a pain.



Thanks





John





On 25 Feb 2012, at 10:19, Sam Michel wrote:



Hiya John,



Oooo, good question. I've wrestled with this a fair bit over the last few
years. Last time I had a good look around, we plumped for the ease of
interface over back-end functionality. It's not quite the same as we don't
have clients using the system.



We've ended up using Mailchimp and then extending a fair bit (triggered
emails, user integration, scheduled emails, auto-generated templates) using
their API, which so far (touches server gently) has proved very robust.



The UI has proved simple enough that when we staffed up for Social Media
Week recently, all of our contract team were able to get the hang of it,
very quickly, and able to generate newsletters/email shots, which for me,
proved its worth. I have a hunch that if I did a cost comparison of a more
sophisticated system and increased return vs. cost of staff
training/production resource, this solution would win. For us.



We also looked at the more SMTP-focused solutions like Sendgrid, which I
think would work well for more fixed solutions.



I'm particularly keen to see how the likes of dotMailer, Constant Contact,
Lyris evolve and build in access, management and CRM of social channels
with email. Any pointers/observations v. welcome.


Toodle Pip

Sam

--------------------------------------------------------------
Sam Michel, CEO - e: sam at chinwag.com
t: +44 (0)20 7183 2923 f: +44 (0)20 7099 4011
Chinwag - http://chinwag.com
Twitter - http://twitter.com/toodlepip
---------------------------------------------------------------

- Social Media Week LDN 2012 (13-17 Feb) - http://chw.ag/smwldn

- Chinwag Jobs - http://jobs.chinwag.com
- Digital Missions - http://digital-mission.org
- Sam @ Chinwag: http://chinwag.com/blogs/sammichel
- Sam @ Toodlepip: http://www.toodlepip.co.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------



On 24 February 2012 17:50, John Braithwaite <john at ergodigital.com> wrote:

Hi All



I've seen a good number of email systems in my time and, generally
speaking, they seem to fit into the 'light and plug and play' (i.e.
Mailchimp) and the 'all inclusive' (i.e. DotMailer).



I really just want one email system which can do both... the light ones
often don't have API access, are a little too basic, can't do automations
etc. (but actually, generally have better editors / UI then that bigger
systems).... the heavy ones have loads of bells and whistles but at a large
price...



So, I'll be open with you, I get stuck. Smaller clients I essentially have
to deal with 'wot they got' and have no chance of converting them (with
small budgets and list sizes) to a larger system... so I end up dealing
with a multitude of suppliers and all their little foibles (and, don't they
have a few ;-)



I suppose I perhaps want the impossible - a more fully featured and
flexible system where I can get smaller clients on as well as servicing the
larger ones.



Anyone got any suggestions? Please, just thoughts to the list and no direct
sales pitches.





John Braithwaite
Ergo Digital Ltd - Giving You Many Happy Returns!

01962 605 000 (new number!)
07977 272752

W: www.ergodigital.com (new website!)
E: john at ergodigital.com
T: twitter.com/johnnymb
L: linkedin.com/in/johnmbraithwaite

Latest Blog:
'Make sure you choose the right mobile website'
http://ergodigital.com/create-the-right-mobile-website

Office: 2nd Floor, Pinewood, West Ham Lane, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5EE




~~ Chinwag Jobs: Find your perfect new job or next team member ~~

Chinwag Jobs is the leading specialist recruitment website for digital
roles in the UK. Used by major companies such as BBC, Electronic
Arts, Kingston University as well as the majority of recruitment
agencies who place staff in the sector.

Take a look through our listings or register to advertise your
own vacancies today.

>> CHINWAG JOBS: http://jobs.chinwag.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're subscribed to uk-netmarketing to change your options or
unsubscribe: https://mm.chinwag.com/options/uk-netmarketing

uk-netmarketing discussion list is powered by http://chinwag.com



~~ Chinwag Jobs: Find your perfect new job or next team member ~~

Chinwag Jobs is the leading specialist recruitment website for digital
roles in the UK. Used by major companies such as BBC, Electronic
Arts, Kingston University as well as the majority of recruitment
agencies who place staff in the sector.

Take a look through our listings or register to advertise your
own vacancies today.

CHINWAG JOBS: http://jobs.chinwag.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're subscribed to uk-netmarketing to change your options or
unsubscribe: https://mm.chinwag.com/options/uk-netmarketing

uk-netmarketing discussion list is powered by http://chinwag.com



John Braithwaite
Ergo Digital Ltd - Giving You Many Happy Returns!

01962 605 000 (new number!)
07977 272752

W: www.ergodigital.com (new website!)
E: john at ergodigital.com
T: twitter.com/johnnymb
L: linkedin.com/in/johnmbraithwaite

Latest Blog:
'Make sure you choose the right mobile website'
http://ergodigital.com/create-the-right-mobile-website

Office: 2nd Floor, Pinewood, West Ham Lane, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5EE



~~ Chinwag Jobs: Find your perfect new job or next team member ~~

Chinwag Jobs is the leading specialist recruitment website for digital
roles in the UK. Used by major companies such as BBC, Electronic
Arts, Kingston University as well as the majority of recruitment
agencies who place staff in the sector.

Take a look through our listings or register to advertise your
own vacancies today.


CHINWAG JOBS: http://jobs.chinwag.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're subscribed to uk-netmarketing to change your options or
unsubscribe: https://mm.chinwag.com/options/uk-netmarketing

uk-netmarketing discussion list is powered by http://chinwag.com

~~ Chinwag Jobs: Find your perfect new job or next team member ~~

Chinwag Jobs is the leading specialist recruitment website for digital
roles in the UK. Used by major companies such as BBC, Electronic
Arts, Kingston University as well as the majority of recruitment
agencies who place staff in the sector.

Take a look through our listings or register to advertise your
own vacancies today.


CHINWAG JOBS: http://jobs.chinwag.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You're subscribed to uk-netmarketing to change your options or
unsubscribe: https://mm.chinwag.com/options/uk-netmarketing

uk-netmarketing discussion list is powered by http://chinwag.com



John Braithwaite
Ergo Digital Ltd - Giving You Many Happy Returns!

01962 605 000 (new number!)
07977 272752

W: www.ergodigital.com (new website!)
E: john at ergodigital.com
T: twitter.com/johnnymb
L: linkedin.com/in/johnmbraithwaite

Latest Blog:
'Make sure you choose the right mobile website'
http://ergodigital.com/create-the-right-mobile-website

Office: 2nd Floor, Pinewood, West Ham Lane, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG22 5EE
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mm.chinwag.com/pipermail/uk-netmarketing/attachments/20120228/d00050c2/attachment.htm