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Subject:	Re: ISP needs Flash site,-chance for exposure
From:	David Gary
Date:	Fri, 3 Jul 1998 20:51:55 +0100

Wayne Townsend wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> In the "real" world, it happens all the time, and also in many different
> media types. Has for years. It's a gamble that sometimes pays off. That
> *is* the reality.

Creating *free* work for commercial entities has never paid as long as Ive been
in the freelance business and I'll still discourage any artist from doing pro-bono

for profit organizations.

> All designers have the right to charge whatever they want to, whether
> top-rate or nothing. Sorry, but there is really no way to price-fix in a
> competitive industry like this, through a "guild" or any other way.

Indeed! Charge what you please, just charge. Do work, get paid, give a reciept,
its an industry,lets keep it that way.
Again, as I said the guild is created mostly to protect the best interest of the
artist usually on legal
matters more than it is a pricing guide. goto www.gag.org to read about it.

> Some designers are new (learning), with no commercial accounts, and need an
> active portfolio. Without one, you aren't going to get very far. This is
> why it happens.
> Also, even to an employed professional, sometimes the client merits it and
> sometimes it makes marketing sense.

Indeed your work needs to be seen. Any amateur here can call the ISP they have an
accountwith and get free server space to show off their work. If your ISP wont
give you the space then
drop the account because most will. I would advise any amateur starting out to
create for
you own benifit and not the benefit of a profit organization. The more times a
company can get free
work by a amateur _or_ pro it hurts all of us and starts to set a standard than
none of us here want.

> I'm not sure of the merits of this ISP, but if they are of any decent size,
> this project could be worth a lot of advertising to the right person, and
> this generates new business for them. It would seem to me, that if you
> were ever going to do pro-bono work, front-page at an ISP would be a good
> choice.

ISP is not the golden bucket when it comes to exposure. The point is that more
andmore companies are using this technique to get free work that they can
perfectly
pay for. It hurts the integrity of our standard, period. If you do quality work
for a
reasonable price you will get business. You dont need any ISP's homepage promoting
your
"free" work.

> In fact, if our ISP decides that they want a Flashed homepage, I'd
> probably do it for them in a heart-beat.

Thats your choice, but its a fact that you would also be degrading our
standard.With that kind of time on your hands, maybe you should goto law school or
become a doctor.

> Here's a personal example of when I would do a pro-bono flash site:
> I know a multi-media studio in Santa Cruz Ca. that is really hurting. Long
> story short, the owner died and relatives raided equipment, etc. The
> people that are left are really struggling.

This isnt an example more than its a rare case and a sad story.But its also a
legal issue. If I work for a company and the owner dies
and the equipment is sold or taken by the recipient(s) of his will, then I would
simply go work for someone else. No matter how sad it is, its still business.

> But their work is *fabulous*. I'm a big fan. They produced a multi-media
> CD "The Power of Touch" that is truly one of the best pieces of work I've
> ever seen. But they don't have money anymore to market it, and are stuck
> in a rut that I believe effective use of Flash and the web could help pull
> them out of.
>
> I told them that I will convert this CD from SuperCard & Toolbook to Flash
> and RealVideo for presentation on the web as a "Free"
> web-application...<snipped>

Well your an angel in disguise and a great guy for doing that, but this is going
way off the subject. It seems here that this would be a chance to take someone
else's work and promote yourself with it. Theres your "payoff".

> I see a new market, enabled by Flash. I believe that there are a lot of
> great existing CD titles out there that are not selling well for various
> reasons, but would convert well to the web using Flash, RealPlayer, and
> Quicktime/QTVR technologies. This project will help me prove that, and
> will make a terrific addition to our portfolio, and get us special
> recognition that we can't afford to buy outright.If this works, then we

> (and other Flash developers) can go to other

> multi-media CD authors and negotiate paying projects, pointing to this one
> as an example. Flash and the web can breath new life into older CD titles,
> and I'm convinced there is money to be made in this.

Cool, If you've found a niche in this market, great. This original subject
was on the basis of designing, not "converting". This is still waaaay off the
ISP subject and more about a rare opportunity. My post was to discourage
people to stay away from companies that use this "hey we're havin' a contest and
the best entry gets his work on our site" scam.

> Why should other designers object to those who do pro-bono work once in a
> while? It doesn't affect their bottom line at all.

Im wasting my breath here. Doing pro-bono for profit organizationswill degrade our
standard, period.

> So, before people object to the original post too strongly, think for a
> minute how beneficial it would be for Flash if all of us wrote a homepage
> for our own personal ISPs?

Think for a minute if we all created our Flash personal homepages to promote
ourselves,
showed our ISP our site and what we can do for them and then charge them to create
a Flash version of
their site.

goto www.gag.org to find out how the market should work for the artist _and_ the
client.

> Acceptance of Flash technology is the most important key to *our*
> future.

The most important "key" to our future is getting paid.

> Sometimes you have to give before you can get. "Build it and they will come."

This "cliche" doesnt even represent the topic. Kevin Costner didnt build a
baseball diamondon someone else's property.

> Many successful designers are *always working*, whether they are charging
> top-dollar to the wealthy clients or next-to-nothing to the poor ones.

Designers learning "cutting edge", staying up all hours of the night, sacrificing
time awayfrom their family and hobbies to master a skill, shouldnt settle for
"next to nothing"
Your design capabilities play a major part, but just knowing the latest technology
is a skill in itself.
Flash is an Artist's tool and can be used in personal expression, but when it
comes to using it to create
work for profitable commercial entities then it becomes commercialized and
requires payment, period.
The "poor" clients dont need to be looking at "cutting edge", just like I dont go
out looking at Lamborginis.
I cant afford it.

> Why do smart guys like John spend valuable time putting tutorial pages and
> developer directories, etc. on the web? To promote the technology for the
> benefit of all of us. Nobody's paying them to do it, are they? But I
> don't see any of us objecting to that.
>

Wayne, please dont use John C, as a scapegoat here, he doesnt deserve it. He an
invaluable
asset to this list. However hes doing it for a non-profit organization. Wana know
what that
organization is? Us, as a Flash community. Why is it "non-profit"? We dont pay
him.
Wayne, this letter is really not directed to you more than I'd like to be
informing the "Flash" public.
A Flash "guild" is a good idea in my opinion even though I think it should have
membership dues
to insure its integrity and future.

I think most professionals can agree here.

'nuff said on the subject, I have to get back to "paying" clients.

-DG-

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