Re: ISP needs Flash site,-chance for exposure

[David Gary]

Judy Miller wrote:


>

On Wednesday, July 01, 1998 2:28 PM, Wayne Townsend [SMTP:waynettopher [dot] net]

> wrote:

> > Hi David,

>

> >

> > In the "real" world, it happens all the time, and also in many different

> > media types.  Has for years.  It's a gamble that sometimes pays off.  That

> > *is* the reality.

>

> What a great post this was. I don't usually comment on this kind of stuff.

> I do lots of things for free. I also work my ass off. I don't have a lot of

> time. I work 18 hour days when I add up taking care of business and family, 7

> days a week,


There ya go, You do alot of things for free and you work your ass off and dont have

alotof time to spend with your family or yourself. Thats sad, noone to blame but

yourself though. :)


Dont give your time away and you'll get paid _and_ have time to spend with your

kids.

Believe me, Im sure their more important than doing free work for someone who was

nieve

enough to get screwed by an ISP.



> but I have done web sites for 2 international organizations for

> free (one of which just offered to pay me well to redo and add to the site),

> for single mothers that need exposure etc.


Im glad they finally paid you. Most business wont.


> My personal site is a information

> site that has hundreds and hundreds of hours devoted to it. I am currently

> designing my flash 3 site, which will include many educational applications

> concerning teaching fundamentals of art. Some of these Flash 3 areas are going

> to take me weeks and weeks to develop, for just little apps. Why am I doing it?

> For exposure.


Great!, Do it for yourself. Invest in yourself and incourage others to.


> This is a mom and pop company. Do we need the money? You bet, living hand to

> mouth sucks. BUT by word of mouth within my circle of activity, (decorative

> arts), my business is growing, without any advertising. I have a reputation of

> being honest and fair. People trust me, because I am a giver, and not a taker.


This is a wonderful story, but is also sad. You evidently need to be educated onhow

to get away from that "living hand to mouth" thing. If pro-bono work for

profitable organizations is promoted and excepted we will _ALL_ be "living hand to

mouth".

Nobody here is saying be dishonest or unfair. Not at all. Just dont promote the

people who are.


check out www.gag.org and educate yourself now.


> I firmly believe that the more one gives, the more it comes back. Sometimes it

> takes time, but it happens.


This is a wonderful thing to believe in, however in a corparate industry its not

the real world.This might hold true in caring for the sick or needy which I'd do

pro-bono work for those

charities any day.


However this whole debate is about corpoarate business being unfair and dishonest

which

insults our industry.


> I am self taught at all aspects of web design,


This is probably why your still struggling. Education is the key. Please listen to

whatsome professionals on this list have to say, instead of passing it on as being

"judemental".

You will learn alot.


> In the "real" world, people are sick to death of getting screwed. I just redid

> a web site for free for someone because the other designer and she had a

> personal conflict and she got booted off the server, site and all. It didn't

> take me long, wasn't a big site, but I redid it for free, just becuase I felt

> awful for her.


I really feel bad for her, but I think I feel worse for your children, they

probably coulda

used the pro-bono time instead. Seriously I feel bad for that lady, but its her own

fault.

Theres legal action that can be taken here. Maybe when Wayne becomes a lawyer, he

can comp her the time.(just kidding) No really, so many people starting out in the

design

field are scared to charge clients to do work. This is your livelyhood. Charge

accordingly.

Charge what you think your worth, but CHARGE. Believe me, the client will have more


respect for you and feel hes getting quality, which in most cases he is if hes

paying a fee.


> You can bet that word of mouth is going to soar from that one.

> Sometimes you need to look to the other side of the rainbow to see the pot of

> gold.

>


These cliches are beautiful, but they're still cliches. The end of the rainbow is

making money youdeserve for learning a skill you have devoted your valuable time

to. This should be so you can spend time

with your family. If your working eighteen hours a day and are still "hand to

mouth", you need to find

another job or learn how to make it in this industry. Promoting pro-bono for

profitable organizations

will only keep you starving and only put money in other people's pockets.


> Someone also mentioned the other day, that Gabo obviously got so busy doing

> orders from his site, that he doesn't have the time to work on personal

> development any time. Now there's wisdom for you. I have also had to give up my

> painting for the most part because there is not time in a day to do everything

> under the sun. It really is a good idea to analyze situations with angles

> involved before passing judgment. You tend to keep your feet out of your mouth

> a little more successfully that way.

>


Gabo's site is a prime example of successful "self promotion". Hes evidently

bombarded with

projects because hes promoted himself and noone else. He also happens to have great


design skills.


You can learn from him. Analyze your own sitiuations and then compare it to that of

masters

like Gabo. You wont starve and you will find plenty of time to spend with the ones

who need you

more than some lady that got screwed by some ISP on her business site, your kids.


My opinions come from a professional background and I know what protects the

industry.

Its obvious that your "self taught". Pro-bonos are gona happen for profitable

organizations

and more designers will be screwed. Our industry will suffer each time that

happens.

But as a designer community we can educate each other and learn from each others

mistakes.

Im sure some who have read this post have learned from yours.


We must hold the integrity of this new industry solidly and carefully when

commercializing

it. If we dont we will never reap the rewards of our hard work.


Do NOT promote pro-bono work for profitable organizations. If they cant afford you,


then they dont need "cutting edge" technology. If they can fork over the cash to

advertize

on the web, then they need to find another line of business.


thx for listening


-DG-




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