Re: UKNM: Re: UKNM Digest V1 #214

[Sam Michel]

In the words of most stand-up comedians at some point in their career:


"Allright, allright, we've all had a drink....calm down..."


Let's keep this civilised, heated argument is good, over heated is bad. Maybe the hot summer weather is taking it's toll. Grab an ice cream and sit in the park for a while, guys...now, there's a thought.


At 09:55 07/07/99 +0000, you wrote:

>I don't normally resort to the levels that some others use in this list but,

>hey, what the hell?

>

>You mate, are a prize tosser. My site took a couple of people in my company

>a day to put together. You probably sat round and had a management meeting

>about whether to put those oh so attractive little client buttons at the

>bottom of your screen or swimming around in the middle. I could rant on for

>hours but I have to go and pick up a cheque from a client. ICL?

>Don't make me laugh.

>Entranet

>Domino Systems

>Nvision

>tnm (me and I'm not going anywhere other than straight for your puny little

>CD-Rom based client list)

>Inter.Net.Uk (Maplins was done 3 years ago)

>Britnet

>Citygate (now elsewhere)

>

>Need I go on?

>Well one more line will do. When you learn to recognise someone making a

>slightly tongue in cheek point, come back and talk sense, otherwise, go back

>and burn your homepage onto CD, that way, when you are out selling double

>glazing, you will have something to remember your "glory days" by.

>If you really wanna meet me as you seem to suggest, my number is there for

>all to see, call me. Don't hide behind the list.

>

>You are re-flamed now sod off.

>

>Dorian Spackman

>Business Development Director

>Terra Nova Media Ltd.

>

doriansterranovamedia [dot] com

>+44 (0)1784 410035

>+44 (0)802 796468

>www.terranovamedia.com

>

>Terra Nova Media - The Digital Frontier

>----- Original Message -----

>

From: UKNM Digest <owner-uk-netmarketing-digestchinwag [dot] com>

>

To: <uk-netmarketing-digestchinwag [dot] com>

>Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 5:51 PM

>Subject: UKNM Digest V1 #214

>

>

>>

>> Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 21:06:10 +0100

>

> From: "Neil Aberdeen" <neiltui [dot] co [dot] uk>

>> Subject: UKNM: Fw: UKNM Digest V1 #213

>>

>> >Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 13:50:21 -0000

>

> >From: "Dorian Spackman" <doriansterranovamedia [dot] com>

>> >Subject: UKNM: Re: UKNM ATTENTION: New Business People

>> >

>> >In regards to Clay's comments about the state of UK New Media industry.

>> >They seem to provoke feelings in me that I want to share:

>> >

>> >Some of you may know me, most of you won't, nearly all of you won't give

>a

>> >damn but I have to say that I agree with his sentiments somewhat.

>> >I believe that the internet is potentially the saving grace for certain

>> >regions of the world in their dealings on a business level both

>internally

>> >and internationally, against nations such as the US who are incredibly

>> >powerful in their trade and influence. An old adage is that there are no

>big

>> >or small companies on the web, just good and bad.

>>

>> Some of you may know me, most of you won't, nearly all of you won't give a

>> damn but I have to say that I've never bothered to read such pompous, self

>> important shit in my life. Of course he's right. Putting contact addresses

>> so you can cut and paste them will change the balance of global

>capitalism.

>> (Although I don't think that's quite what he was saying. In fact I thought

>> he was being quite funny and spot on about a design detail that reflects

>an

>> attitude - which stung because our site commits the sin.)

>>

>> >This list and a variety of it's members seem to be preoccupied with

>minutiae

>> >of the most facile type in some cases, I for one would relish the

>> >opportunity of having meaningful discussions in regards to things that

>> >really matter, not whether my site with its latest graphical niceties is

>> >going to attract more attention. If you want graphics look at

>www.eye4u.de

>> >they leave a lot of you for dead anyway. If you want to get on, why don't

>we

>> >start to discuss more important issues.

>>

>> www.eye4u.de ? - try and check your url before publishing it - or is that

>> minutiae? And while we're about take the steaming turd out of your own

>eye -

>> graphical nicities? your site stinks. Everyone loves surface, even geeks

>who

>> see in wireframe love surface, (they just need to memorise what it is

>> they've been told that they like - only joking I know you're going to

>> inherit the earth)

>>

>> >I'll start, why don't we try something progressive - The future of

>> >electronic commerce, is it business to consumer or business to business?

>>

>> Or earth to Ork?

>>

>> >It's not revolutionary but a point where the answer changes constantly

>and

>> >has done for the 5 years I've been involved in e-commerce.

>>

>> What are you on about? The lottery?

>>

>> >It should also provoke some of you into trying to actually sell the

>concept of doing

>> >BUSINESS over the web to your clients. I've got my own client base who

>have

>> >realised this and more are coming on board every week.

>>

>> More and more clients every week? - talk about exponential growth. There's

>> no evidence of your client base on your site - all strictly confidential

>and

>> hush hush I take it. Nice move to make it oscillate between second-rate

>and

>> abysmal, that should throw everyone off the scent.

>>

>> >Some of you don't even know how to

>> >integrate a database into the web, let alone how to put multi-delivery

>media

>> >business strategies together.

>>

>> Ooh ohh stop hurting me. I can't help it if I lost the instructions. You

>> clearly have yours on how to teach people to suck eggs

>>

>> >I could have used this list over the last couple of years to just look at

>> >you guys, research your client base and your weaknesses and attacked it

>from

>> >there. I haven't done this but it makes me wonder looking on sometimes if

>> >others may already be doing so.

>>

>> I finally get it you are from Ork and you're going to attack our client

>> bases. Stay on target Red Leader. You've clearly never had a business

>> relationship so it'll come as quite a shock to you when you grow up.

>>

>> >We as a nation have some of the most talented IT (Yes, IT not just

>design)

>> >people in the world (wasn't the idea of computing formulated here?) and I

>> >could scream as more and more US and European companies move in and take

>all

>> >the glory. We should be proud of our development and thought process

>> >abilities and out pushing ourselves, not sitting around bitching. I

>recently

>> >saw someone "laughingly" auction off the UK New Media industry on e-bay

>for

>> >about $28. I smiled for a few moments and then thought a bit more. It

>dawned

>> >on me that we have now reached the stage where we have become nothing

>more

>> >than a bunch of whinging poms, to coin a phrase. What a crock of s**t.

>> >Isn't it about time that we stood up and took note of what is going on?

>The

>> >web is for business, believe this or you might as well call it a day now.

>If

>> >you are involved in the "traditional" web development arena, it's about

>time

>> >that you started to realise that the reason the Yanks are moving in and

>> >buying you or squashing you is not because companies like WebMedia (sorry

>> >Sam) and the like were poorly funded and Razorfish was simply swallowed

>by

>> >someone larger. It is because you need to adapt to survive and we as an

>> >industry don't do this.

>>

>> UK IT talent - oh you mean like ICL? - A lesson in blindness and

>reification

>> on how to destroy an industry through state organised monopoly and

>> stupidity. ICL - white goods supremacists who thought software was for

>> wimps(OOPS-oops). Or perhaps you meant the monomaniacs at Acorn? Whatever

>it

>> is you don't like people that sell out which seems a little rough given

>'the

>> web is for business'. My hot tip is why don't you try becoming a

>> professional and selling services to others for a fee?

>>

>> >just help yourselves by speaking to one of us.

>>

>> Earth to Ork

>>

>> >SORT IT OUT. We deserve to be amongst the best in the world in electronic

>> >business.

>> >

>> >BE WARNED. If you don't, I'm coming for you and so is Chuck from US WEB

>> >(remember Xplora?)

>>

>> Chuck who? Chuck Jones? Chuck Yeager? for god's sake tell us

>>

>> >Be Seeing you.

>>

>> Not if I see you first etc etc

>>

>> Neil Aberdeen

>> Tui

>

> neiltui [dot] co [dot] uk

>> http://www.tui.co.uk

>> ********************


Toodle Pip


Sam

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