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Subject: UKNM: Been Trying to Hold Back
From: Richard Gale
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:02:21 +0100

And failed.....

1) If you want a decent post-grad marketing course, there is only one! It is
the MA in Marketing that Kingston Uni offer (ft/pt and distance learning) in
their School of Marketing, which is rated top in the country for Marketing.

2) CIM diploma - is a joke! SWOT, PEST, 4Ps.....these are so outdated these
days, and really should not be considered as post-graduate. Also letting
business studies under-grads gain theirs for just doing the case study has
de-valued it in the eyes of many.

3) IDM - well out of date, their industry in particular really need to get
updated, but to their credit seem to be doing so.

4) ISP - don't even get me started, it was so nearly a case of send a cheque
and we'll send you a certificate....three months distance learning for a
diploma is a sad refelction on them.

5) Will is right, it is still hard to run a good course in an industry that
is so new. Yes there are lessons that can be taught, but who will teach it?
There are very very few good books on the subject out there, and few in the
industry that know what they are talking about that could spare the time to

The Real Problem??
As part of my disso for the MA, I looked at the SP/PR/DM agencies and looked
at how the emergence of the Internet and IMC was going to effect their
industry. I will not bore you (anymore than I already am!)...but one of the
findings that came out was that the agencies of all sizes hold little to no
respect for any of the 'association' courses. What they are all wanting is a
high quality course that teaches IMC (including the internet), providing
them with new staff that know more than the basics that the CIM teach, but
are less specialised than IDM and ISP offer. Where can someone learn what
Account Management is? Where can someone learn how to juggle four agencies,
make sure that their efforts are integrated? Where are we taught about IMC
in any of the above courses? The sooner the associations put aside their
political differences, and work together to build one high quality course,
the better for the 'marketing' industry. Internet needs to be taught, yes.
But who on here would spill their best kept learning? We will point and
advise, but in an industry so new and so competitive, would you share the
secret of a 90% click through?

These are all my own opinions, and I have not studied some of the courses
listed above for years, so things might have changed.

-----Original Message-----
From: will rowan [willatthecustomer [dot] co [dot] uk (mailto:willatthecustomer [dot] co [dot] uk)]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 4:45 PM
To: uk-netmarketingatchinwag [dot] com
Subject: Re: UKNM: Re: Institute of Direct Marketing


> "When everything in the world of new media is so new, and case studies are
> few and far between, how CAN there be a course?"

It wasn't easy to start with - but very quickly you come to appreciate how
everybody's learning curve is. We've all been on it. When you're working
this 'stuff' every day you forget how much you have already learnt.

As new media moves from margin to mainstream, more new people start working
it, and ask the same 'old' questions. Look at the number of times that
engine listings' hits this list - about once a month I'd guess. A public
training course can help newcomers move up the learning curve more quickly,
show them the direction in which developments are headed.

Courses tailored to specific company needs can move thinking within an
organisation very quickly because there's far less baggage than in other
areas -
the whole agenda is new.

Yeah, roll on interactive tv - not the interim technology we have today
only half a step away from linear broadcast programming, but personal
programming on demand.

Direct marketers have some of the skills needed for online marketing -
& managing customer information for lifetime profit, for example - but many
skills are entirely new, and, as you say, are being invented by doing, every

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