Re: FLASH: Giving out source files

[Russell E. Unger]

Hehe...Here we go... :)


>Sorry to jump the gun a little on ya there Russ,



Not in the least; I'm sure that you and I (and JC) aren't the only ones with

varying opinions on all of this.


You bring up very valid points, and I do not dispute them; not in the least.


My only *real* point about this, I suppose, is that I do it differently than

you and I do it with purpose very much in mind.


Again, not to say that I think your way is right.  To cross the line a

little, I like it that you actually do your work that way.  While we can

debate the Source/Art issue all day long, I'll not sweat that fact--I'll

just say that I think we both are right on certain aspects and that I think

both of us probably drastically disagree on some of the others.  Asi es la

vida...This doesn't take away from any of my respect for you as a

professional, etc.  I'm sure it makes you think I'm a bit kooky, and that's

cool, too.


The contracts that I/we use all state clearly that we provide a users guide,

a standards guide and other very explicit information--ranging from the

(yes, it's there) usage of original artwork (that means no ripping off my

ultra-cool buttons) for other means and understanding that if the client

chooses to have an outside agency work on the project after the source is

given up, they will *not* be held harmless should anything legal ensue.

That usually catches the eye of their attorney, but they also understand

what they are getting in return, and it's generally a service beyond most

other consultant-types.


>I though your reply was a little to black and white not to respond.

>Artist/Developer/creative/whatever, it doesnt matter. You own the rights to

whatever you

>create.



Yes and no, from my perspective.  I won't reiterate too much, but I'll say a

couple of things.  First, you were right about my post...a little too black

and white.  Agreed.  Next, I think I own the rights to what I create, but to

certain limitations.  So long as I am able to showcase my work and I use

content that is (in general) all from the client, I consider the piece

theirs, with parts of the whole being mine, and therefor feel less

"attachment" to it.


BUT, that's just me.


>Again, professionals sell the rights to _USE_  the art, not the property

itself. There is no

>reason to

>issue the source files to a client. And you are right, this should be

detailed in the

>contract.



Certainly.  The Art.  JC will tell you that it applies to the "Code", but I

also protect myself and state that if alterations are made that they must be

noted so that the original piece can still stand to my credit, etc.


>I have not seen any of these important details outlined on any of the

online contracts

>posted to this list yet.



I won't/cannot post *those* contracts here.  LOTS of monies and time have

been spent with attorneys ensuring that these read "just so" so that I keep

myself sane and in the clear with it.


>Distribution of FLA files not only give edit ability to your graphics, they

reveal your

>schematics signature.

>A client can use your hard worked schematics for their own templates.

>I stick to the traditional artist/illustrator model simply because theres

no reason not to.



Now here, I start to see more of your side, and this has definitely given me

something to consider.  However, when you get a little more detailed, it is

sometimes difficult to keep some of the work "hidden".


Perhaps an options is for me to add an addendum to my contracts stating

something to the likes of "Source is given for the use of this project

alone..." blah blah blah...rip me off and I can sue you, etc.


That'll be hard to track, but I generally keep very healthy relationships

with the clients.


>The

>paradigm shouldnt change, only the way it is used. I stick to these ethical

guidelines

>because they are

>supported by thousands of seasoned professionals and have been since the

dawn of

>professional freelance practices.



Now, here I can say that I further agree with you, and I'd further agree

that others who might be relatively unseasoned follow these.  It would be

much easier to find information for those practices and give a person a bit

more leverage/ground to stand on.  Makes sense to me.


>Unfortunately the internet has given rise to false identities. These

identities are

>exploited by these uneducated practices

>however.



And they hurt us all, regardless of which line of thinking we take.


>The intended use of the design, the price, and terms of sale should be

clearly stated in the

>contract, PO, or agreement letter.

>If the design is to be used for anything other than its original purpose,

the price is

>usually negotiable as soon as possible.

>The secondary use of the design.may be of greater value than the primary

use. This can

>increase the price anywhere from

>50 to 100% of the fee that would have been charged had the work original

been commissioned

>for the anticipated usage.



I think this falls into somewhat of a grey area and would be pretty hard to

track, but I see your meaning and understand the usefulness...I just think

it's a tough one to track.


>The USE of design always influences the price. If the design is to be

featured over an

>extensive area or is an "all-rights/buyout"

>sale fees are usually significantly higher than when used locally or within

a selected area.


This, I think, would just cause more explanation than necessary, on *my*

part...and it also makes me feel that you are perhaps more of an artist than

I am.  In the ART sense of the word.


RE:  Comps:  I think we are pretty much in aggreeance on that point, in all

honesty.  Kinda cool, actually.  PLUS, there's nothing better than being

able to repurpose and "unselected" comp, too!


Good thread.


Russ



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